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Vanilla vs. FluxBB vs. MyBB siege test

Vanilla vs. FluxBB vs. MyBB siege test

zserozsero Member
edited October 2012 in General

I've just installed all three tests on a Prometeus VZSSD5 (2 core, 512 MB ram, SSD) to find out what is the performance of each forum. I'm using a standard Minstall setup, what means nginx + php-fpm + apc + mysql no-innodb.

Here are the findings (all of them stock configuration). The command I used was siege -c100 -t 5s forum.example.com Vanilla (github/stable)

-c100

Transactions: 122 hits Availability: 100.00 % Elapsed time: 4.62 secs Data transferred: 0.25 MB Response time: 1.94 secs Transaction rate: 26.41 trans/sec Throughput: 0.05 MB/sec Concurrency: 51.26 Successful transactions: 122 Failed transactions: 0 Longest transaction: 3.53 Shortest transaction: 0.13

-c200

Transactions: 120 hits Availability: 27.84 % Elapsed time: 4.20 secs Data transferred: 0.30 MB Response time: 2.03 secs Transaction rate: 28.57 trans/sec Throughput: 0.07 MB/sec Concurrency: 57.94 Successful transactions: 120 Failed transactions: 311 Longest transaction: 3.27 Shortest transaction: 0.01

MyBB

-c100

Transactions: 649 hits Availability: 100.00 % Elapsed time: 4.93 secs Data transferred: 1.94 MB Response time: 0.25 secs Transaction rate: 131.64 trans/sec Throughput: 0.39 MB/sec Concurrency: 32.59 Successful transactions: 649 Failed transactions: 0 Longest transaction: 0.40 Shortest transaction: 0.03

-c200

Transactions: 673 hits Availability: 96.70 % Elapsed time: 4.79 secs Data transferred: 2.01 MB Response time: 0.73 secs Transaction rate: 140.50 trans/sec Throughput: 0.42 MB/sec Concurrency: 103.14 Successful transactions: 673 Failed transactions: 23 Longest transaction: 1.00 Shortest transaction: 0.01

FluxBB -c100

Transactions: 937 hits Availability: 100.00 % Elapsed time: 4.85 secs Data transferred: 1.41 MB Response time: 0.04 secs Transaction rate: 193.20 trans/sec Throughput: 0.29 MB/sec Concurrency: 8.09 Successful transactions: 937 Failed transactions: 0 Longest transaction: 0.14 Shortest transaction: 0.01

-c200

Transactions: 1576 hits Availability: 100.00 % Elapsed time: 4.94 secs Data transferred: 2.37 MB Response time: 0.08 secs Transaction rate: 319.03 trans/sec Throughput: 0.48 MB/sec Concurrency: 25.23 Successful transactions: 1576 Failed transactions: 0 Longest transaction: 0.26 Shortest transaction: 0.01

So the result is that no matter how much I'd like to use Vanilla, FluxBB has 10x the performance of Vanilla, under heavy load.

What surprises me is that how is is possible that this site uses Vanilla? Did you implement some crazy nginx microcache or Varnish solution? How do you know what pages should be cached and what should be rendered?

Thanked by 1craigb
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Comments

  • This site is not being run on anything close to 'low end', or a VPS

    Postgres

  • @justinb said: This site is not being run on anything close to 'low end', or a VPS

    But I heard it all started on a 64MB/96MB box or something similar. Wasn't it a forum at that time?

  • justinbjustinb Member
    edited October 2012

    We're talking large dedicateds zsero

    Hell, when I registered for vanilla it was like 1GB ram VMware @ ENS

    Postgres

  • @zsero said: But I heard it all started on a 64MB/96MB box or something similar. Wasn't it a forum at that time?

    It's when this forum started :) Now it's on bigger box

    My blog | Server Uptime | I'm not working for any providers in here, all my comments just my own opinion.image
  • OK, I get it :-) It's just strange that Vanilla is frequently recommended here for LEB forums, that's how I found it too. So in my opinion I'd only recommend it for small communities. It's a pity, since I really love the interface compared to almost any other forum software.

  • @zsero said: Wasn't it a forum at that time?

    LET wasn't running Vanilla when LEB started, I can't remember what it was, OSQA?

  • @Kairus said: LET wasn't running Vanilla when LEB started, I can't remember what it was, OSQA?

    LETv2 was OSQA LETv1 was bbPress

    FreeVPS.us - The oldest post to host VPS provider
  • i love vanilla also. would love to build a community so i could implement it :)

  • @svgnamy said: would love to build a community so i could implement it :)

    Configuration on nginx is a b**ch, but this blog post helped a lot. http://blog.bigdinosaur.org/vanilla-forum-on-nginx/ Still it's broken in a few functions, and the github has 200+ open tickets, so I don't know if they're ever gonna fix it. MyBB and FluxBB worked out of the box.

  • NexusNexus Member
    edited October 2012

    FluxBB is insanely underestimated, it's insane. The funny thing is, It can be tuned so much more to even have a greater effect. I don't even believe the css is minified. (I don't think they use sprites either). You can also delete the update_online/?check_user function that grabs the online table every refresh to delete "inactive" users. And just setup a cron to run that instead, which would save 1 query for each page, each refresh. And the update_forum function they have when making a post/topic could just be changed to num_replies=num_replies+1, instead of counting all the posts and then adding +1 to it. There is tons of more sneaky performance things you can do to make it even faster. Also I believe the latest version is only using sha1 encryption, moving to crypt with a individual seed for each user would be the best.

    Thanks for your results. Now If you got time, can you do these with shitty Vbulletin / IPB / Burning Board? Just for shit's and giggles? I am a minimalist kind of guy and I hate bloated forum systems. I actually believe the fastest vbulletin forum I've seen is offtopic.com. Or it might just be because they have 6+dedicated servers? I'll never know.

    edit: I'll post this in the fluxbb forum as well, the developers will wet their pants. (I'll link it here :))

    D4jsp - Where virgins roam free
  • KairusKairus Member
    edited October 2012

    @Nexus said: edit: I'll post this in the fluxbb forum as well, the developers will wet their pants. (I'll link it here :))

    They already know, and are quite proud :P There's a ton of these type of benchmarks all over their forums. You can even find the ones comparing Flux to vB and IPB, it's funny. I did my own testing on Flux vs XenForo and IPB, CPU/memory usage was like 75% lower while req/s were 50%+ higher. It's no doubt it's a very, very light forum system. They don't even have a user PM system built-in right? (I know there's a mod for one though).

  • zserozsero Member
    edited October 2012

    OK, here is one more thing I didn't realise yesterday. The response times. The difference there is even bigger!

    Vanilla response -c100: 1.94 secs Vanilla response -c200: 2.03 secs MyBB response -c100: 0.25 secs MyBB response -c200: 0.73 secs FluxBB response -c100: 0.04 secs FluxBB response -c200: 0.08 secs

    Thanked by 2craigb Nexus
  • NexusNexus Member
    edited October 2012

    Also to note the biggest problem with fluxbb is that it converts users text to bbcode and stores it as bbcode format. (NOT HTML). This is a stupid idea for large boards. Every refresh you're putting tons of work on php by having to re-format each post into the proper format (HTML). Which is stupid, why not just format the user(s) text to HTML and store it as HTML so you can let the browser do the work? That's just another way to increase performance on it, but you would have to re-write the parser.... but you can google php bbcode parser functions. Also I believe PECL has a PHP BBCODE function built right in! You would only need to parse the text when submitting it into the database (into HTML). Then never have to touch it again.

    FluxBB's way is: Parse Text into BBCODE -> INSERT into database, then re-parse it again each time for each post, per refresh, once every topic. It just doesn't make sense. But I guess this would only be beneficial for large boards.

    Pretty large 4.6million posts board @ http://forum.ubuntu-fr.org/ Which is on Flux, to bad it's in french haha.

    D4jsp - Where virgins roam free
  • @Nexus - Which is stupid, why not just format the user(s) text to HTML and store it as HTML so you can let the browser do the work?

    @Nexus - Injection, injection, injection. Saving html to the database just begs for code injection. Second all code parts should be saved such as plain text with things like   so that there is no possibility of execustion

  • zserozsero Member
    edited October 2012

    @24khost said: Injection, injection, injection.

    I think http://htmlpurifier.org/ would take care of it, but then maybe they find a bug in htmlpurifier and then they'd need to re-purify all the already saved posts. But still, if I were to make a forum now, I'd save purified html directly and maybe make a job to re-purify the database on each new HTMLPurifier release.

  • @zsero Yeah, was trying to inform @Nexus.

    I still don't believe that there is not a whole in html purifier.

    @Nexus most boards use bbcode as it is safer than html as you can control with commands are used, and it is a fairly developed implementation.

    is it right well? I guess it is personal preference. It is more secure than html, but less secure than plain text.

  • I'm more impressed with how well MyBB held up. I've always been a fan on MyBB but I always thought of it as a "heavier" software similar to IPB and vB.

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  • earlearl Member
    edited March 2013

    I wonder how many people can say they like Vanilla Forum?

    My first impression was that it was kinda sparse when I first started using it especially when comparing the features to vbulletin, I like how you can add rep to a user, not sure if vanilla has this plugin?

    After using vanilla on LET I've somewhat grown fond of it and actually prefer the simplicity over other Forums, but reading some reviews I see a lot of negative comments they go as far to say they won't sign up to the forum because it's using Vanilla..

    So what do you guys think? do you prefer the traditional layout of a typical forum like mybb or do you prefer Vanilla with it's "discussion view" layout

  • daviddavid Member

    I remember posting on LET when it was still running bbPress. Pretty light activity back then.

  • I started using FluxBB about a month ago, it just tanks anything that gets thrown at it, never seem anything load so fast and I have it running on 64mb.



  • earlearl Member

    @david said: I remember posting on LET when it was still running bbPress. Pretty light activity back then.

    Yup.. it was pretty lonely back in the day, and to be honest I did not like the layout of bbpress..

    I wonder if using vanilla contributed to the popularity of this forum, just cause it's simpleto use.

    @AnthonySmith said: I started using FluxBB about a month ago, it just tanks anything that gets thrown at it, never seem anything load so fast and I have it running on 64mb.

    It's worth a shot.. I do like the look and how snappy it feels but was thinking maybe mybb was better cause it's more mature, probably has a bigger following?

  • At present LET seems to be using premium CloudFlare service.

    http://www.whoishostingthis.com/lowendtalk.com

    Happy with ssd vps hosting. Now my sites load like they are hosted next door.

  • necsnecs Member

    Is anything about lowend talk/box actually low end?

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  • @necs said: Is anything about lowend talk/box actually low end?

    Not anymore. The lowendwiki used to run on lowend hardware, but not anymore.

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  • @Raymii said: Not anymore. The lowendwiki used to run on lowend hardware, but not anymore.

    That is strange. Wondering whether it is due to higher capacity requirements or something else..?

    Happy with ssd vps hosting. Now my sites load like they are hosted next door.

  • @fly said: fluxbb is sexy as hell.

    But sqlite support sucks.

    File: include/dblayer/sqlite.php

    if (!function_exists('sqlite_open'))
        exit('This PHP environment doesn\'t have SQLite support built in. ...
    

    Guess they never heard of PDO.

  • bnmklbnmkl Member

    +1 @sleddog.

    -

  • earlearl Member

    I really like Vanilla! but so far it seems everyone I ask likes the default layout of a typical forum with it's heading and subheading.

    Might end up just using Mybb.. I like how snappy fluxbb feels but not sure about community support and the availability of plugin.

  • OP, would you mind adding phpbb to the table?

    I'm really curious about it.

  • freevps.us is a MyBB forum that runs on a leb last time I heard - @dmmcintyre3?

    My Advice: : VPS Advice
  • earlearl Member

    @raindog308 said: freevps.us is a MyBB forum

    Yeah I think it's pretty nice for a free forum, it has the same look and feel as Vbulletin.

  • earlearl Member

    I just noticed that a lot of big boards like Debian, Virtualbox, Videolan, Wacom, Fujitsu all use phpBB

  • @raindog308 said: freevps.us is a MyBB forum that runs on a leb last time I heard - @dmmcintyre3?

    It's on a 96mb OVZ

    FreeVPS.us - The oldest post to host VPS provider
  • zserozsero Member
    edited March 2013

    @skirtTight said: OP, would you mind adding phpbb to the table?

    Yes, I might, but since the time of the original thread Prometeus migrated the OpenVZ node to a faster Xeon and also I went from OpenVZ to KVM (to a different node), so things might be different. I might need to do the whole thing again I guess. So do you want added +MyBB +phpBB?

  • Would you mind to put SMF on your test bed?

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  • http://forum.lowendspirit.com runs FluxBB on 64mb OVZ I still cant get over how snappy it is :)



  • sleddogsleddog Member
    edited March 2013

    @AnthonySmith said: http://forum.lowendspirit.com runs FluxBB on 64mb OVZ I still cant get over how snappy it is :)

    Tiny db yet :) PunBB used to run into issues with a large db -- to do with search indexing IIRC -- that caused it to slow down significantly and suck memory. But that was a couple years back. I haven't followed it recently.

  • zserozsero Member
    edited March 2013

    OK, so the ones you are interested in are: Vanilla, MyBB, FluxBB, SMF, phpBB, PunBB ?

  • @KuJoe said: I've always been a fan on MyBB but I always thought of it as a "heavier" software similar to IPB and vB.

    Hell MyBB is magic. Give it a small bit of optimization and it screams.

  • How about adding bbPress as well ?

    I know it runs on top of WordPress as a plugin, but still a choice for many using WP already.

    Happy with ssd vps hosting. Now my sites load like they are hosted next door.

  • MunMun Member

    I will just say this. Even though Vanilla maybe slower, it is a TON better. It allows for more functionality, and has common things you would want in a modern day forums anyways. Fluxbb has them lacking still. Like friendly URLs still isn't built in.

  • zserozsero Member

    @vanarp said: How about adding bbPress as well ?

    I can add it as well. The interesting thing about it is that WP has a variety of caching plugins, what can work really well, but I don't know how well integrated they are with bbPress. Does anyone know if W3TC or Super Cache works with bbPress?

  • bbPress folks claim that:

    bbPress is lean, mean, and ready to take on any job you throw at it.

    i would like to see its performance stats without WP caching.

    Happy with ssd vps hosting. Now my sites load like they are hosted next door.

  • zserozsero Member
    edited March 2013

    @vanarp said: i would like to see its performance stats without WP caching.

    OK, so I'll do one with and without W3TC. But Wordpress without caching is a no go. It could eat the most powerful computer just from a couple of connections.

  • @zsero said: It could eat the most powerful computer just from a couple of connections.

    Why so? Isn't it the same php & mysql that any forum is using in the backend?

    I usually test my WP installations (php-fpm, nginx & mysql) using blitz.io and the results are not really bad.

    Happy with ssd vps hosting. Now my sites load like they are hosted next door.

  • zserozsero Member
    edited March 2013

    Wordpress without caching is crazily slow, uses a large number of SQL queries and lot of resources.

    Did some tests WP empty site, no plugins and globally disabled comments (this is unrealistic, the slowest part of WP are the plugins): 26 trans / sec, drops 87% at -c200

    W3TC + alternative PHP cache: 328 trans / sec, no drops at -c200

    @vanarp said: Isn't it the same php & mysql that any forum is using in the backend?

    Yes, in the same way as how printf( "Hello World" ); uses the same C as the Linux kernel :-)

  • @zsero Thank you for the quick tests. The results have enlightened me :)

    Happy with ssd vps hosting. Now my sites load like they are hosted next door.

  • earlearl Member

    @Mun said: I will just say this. Even though Vanilla maybe slower, it is a TON better.

    I think Vanilla is great too, but would you really use it thinking that it may be a turn off to people who is unfamiliar with Vanilla? It may affect your membership base.

  • @Rallias said: Give it a small bit of optimization and it screams.

    What would be some typical MyBB optimizations?

    My Advice: : VPS Advice
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