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Video Surveillance

Video Surveillance

NoxterNoxter Member
edited September 2012 in General

Long time lurker here :/.

Anywhosal, I've been looking to install some sort of video surveillance (from which I read a thread on here about). I'm not looking to spend huge dollars and don't need more than 2 cameras. I would rather them be wireless.

I would also rather not have a DVR as I have a spare server in raid0 with 1TB RE4's. Is this possible? Do I need some sort of TV tuner?

Also, is it possible to instead of buying their wireless receiver, to use a spare N router I have laying around?

Spankems,

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  • I was talking more along the lines of, 1.) cheap(er) 2.) record directly to a home server 3.) streaming capabilities so I never need to step outside to experience the world.

    This camera is something to consider as it screen caps to a cloud at a remote location. Thanks though.

  • image

    Seems legit.

    I work for Nodisto.

  • @Noxter , I have used CudaEye / really cool / subscription service / you get a camera hook it up to the internet / then you get hosted video recording for 9.95 per month / nothing but the camera you have to deal with and access the recorded video anywhere. Has motion detection to start recording etc... Also you can review the video and archive for 30 days and take still images from the captured video. Check it out here: http://www.CudaEye.com

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  • Wow , that dropcam looks like an OEM version of CudaEye.com in relation to the hosted video application. CudaEye / strange - cant find the pricing - but it used to be 4 weeks of DVR server for 9.95 which would be cheaper than the 24.95 of dropcam / anyway may need to call them to get pricing.

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  • Possible but not cheap, you need wireless IP surveillance camera something like this and wireless router with internet access IPCam Viewer Android surveillance monitor - before buying camera check for compatibility with IPCam viewer.

  • CoreyCorey Member
    edited September 2012

    @Noxter

    I install cameras professionally. You do not want wireless because for one, you still need power out to the camera - they aren't solar powered. Just run some cat5 or Siamese BNC to the camera and have better quality. Wireless cameras always suck, and your budget isn't going to pay for 'good' IP cameras. They have some lower end IP cams but they all suck so you'd be better off using higher end analog cameras.

    There is software out there that you have to PAY for to record directly to your own server and it's made by GeoVision. I would suggest going with your own 4 channel DVR that has a feature to 'backup' to an external FTP on your server at home. (Although they do sell BNC cards that you can hook directly in your server and I think those come with software although I've never used them so I can't vouche for them yet.)

    I can get you equipment and cable close to wholesale price as I have a business that installs surveillance. You will be looking at around $400 - $500 to do this yourself and do it right, maybe $100 less if the card comes with the software that you can just slap in your server. (Granted you will then have all the necessary tools for future use.)

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  • ^ All of this.

    I've been researching security cameras recently because of some issues at my inlaws' house, and we settled on a traditional wired system with a DVR. IP cameras are stupid expensive, and "wireless" cameras are only "wireless" as long as you don't consider a power cord a "wire". They're also more expensive, have worse quality, etc. etc.

    @Corey knows of which he speaks.

  • @Soylent said: ^ All of this.

    I've been researching security cameras recently because of some issues at my inlaws' house, and we settled on a traditional wired system with a DVR. IP cameras are stupid expensive, and "wireless" cameras are only "wireless" as long as you don't consider a power cord a "wire". They're also more expensive, have worse quality, etc. etc.

    @Corey knows of which he speaks.

    Thanks soylent - as a side note I also have some indoor dome cameras that I'm selling on ebay for less than what I paid because I didn't need them on a job I was doing... and I just noticed ebay took off all images that used to be hosted by them..... no wonder they aren't selling.

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  • pcanpcan Member
    edited September 2012

    @Corey said: They have some lower end IP cams but they all suck so you'd be better off using higher end analog cameras.

    Non quite sure about that. One of the many things I have to do in near future is to replace a system with 32 analog cameras (mostly Sony and Samsung) and two Bosh IP DVRs with a new system with better video quality, better camera reliability, and ability to easily accomodate more cameras on more buildings as needed. The high end - high definition IP camera I tried (too costly) was a lot better than a analog camera, but some (relatively) low-cost IP cameras are still better than analog cameras. I have the impression that analog solutions are near phase-out, they have many limitations.

  • CoreyCorey Member
    edited September 2012

    @pcan said: but some (relatively) low-cost IP cameras are still better than analog cameras

    No wonder, you are using Sony and Samsung analog cameras..... show me a low cost IP camera that is better than a 600TVL verifocal box camera for the same price. Other brands still have sony chips in them without the sony cost.

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  • I haven't found a good enough IP camera at low enough price yet; this is the main reason that keeps the analog system still in place. I considered extending the analog system with a further DVR, but I don't see it as cost effective. To record analog cameras, a expensive DVR is needed; to keep signal integrity with cables at 200+ meters, I should employ costly amplifiers. To search for alternatives, I started to install some Mobotix high-res IP cameras. Reliability is good, and they are well-built. The image quality is good in a narrow range of lighting conditions only, and fast moving objects are blurry. I consider them not suitable for general use. But, in the right conditions, the high resolution is a clear winner. The embedded linux-based computer is the defining feature: it has many signal processing functions, and basic recording and motion detection features.

  • Thank you for all the suggestions folks! So wireless is out. I'll just need to hide the wires under the rug (can't drill through the attic since, well... I live an a apt). Which isn't a problem yet (until I move to a place that doesn't have carpet).

    Any suggestions on a DVR (I would rather find one without an HDD installed)? I was looking into DVR PCI cards but the reviews are so mixed.

  • CoreyCorey Member
    edited September 2012

    @Noxter I have a 4 channel LTS DVR right here with no hard disk... brand new.... I'd take $99 + shipping for it.... (less than I paid.)

    You can push the wires down in the edges of the carpet... and even pull up the carpet a little on the edges and put the wire in and put the carpet back down.

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  • Another question, how small are current B/W (or better color) cameras with still acceptable (480p+, best would be 720p HD) quality? Audio not needed, Interface does not matter (BNC/Analague i guess)

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  • @William I doubt there are any HD quality analog cameras.

  • bdtechbdtech Member
    edited September 2012

    @serverbear dropcam looks pretty awesome. Have one?

    Another cheap option would be a raspberry pi and a usb camera

  • XeoncrossXeoncross Member
    edited September 2012

    For those that are super cheap, you can convert your existing webcam into a security camera with some of the software packages (on windows) or a bash script.

    sudo apt-get install motion

  • @William said: Another question, how small are current B/W (or better color) cameras with still acceptable (480p+, best would be 720p HD) quality? Audio not needed, Interface does not matter (BNC/Analague i guess)

    You get tv lines with analog cameras.

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  • SoylentSoylent Member
    edited September 2012

    I got a set of 600TVL cameras that are roughly the dimensions of a 12oz (355mL) soda can. They're slightly narrower and longer, but not by enough to matter for an estimation. That also doesn't include the small (2in/5cm ish) arm that attaches it to a circular mounting bracket.

  • @Soylent said: I got a set of 600TVL cameras that are roughly the dimensions of a 12oz (355mL) soda can. They're slightly narrower and longer, but not by enough to matter for an estimation. That also doesn't include the small (2in/5cm ish) arm that attaches it to a circular mounting bracket.

    If you take apart that camera you will see that it's only actually a board about 1" x 1" x 1cm

    That is how small they can be.... They have engineered some to be smaller.

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  • Thank you Corey, I'm going to need to get back with you though since I wasn't completely ready to start investing just yet. Appreciate it!

    About USB, I don't think you can run a USB cable very far (before it starts to lose quality), yes? That and you can't run them outside (I don't think).

  • This might not be the case with USB 3.0 though... correct me?

  • I installed a 5 camera system which grew to 8 pretty soon, it included one outside with led ir. Had a DVR-2000 or something system, was cheap enough including the adapters from bnc to utp. The 2x4 ports cards had own mpeg4 recording software (far from HD tho) and were ok to run on a duron 900 with 1 shot every second. It was quite many years ago and was still relatively cheap. like 400 EUR the whole affair without the PC, of course, which was some dumpster grade hw. M

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  • 5 meters for USB 1.1 and USB 2 (http://www.usb.org/developers/usbfaq/#cab1). 3 meters for USB 3 (http://www.lvr.com/usb3faq.htm#ca_maximum). You can make it longer, but throughput suffers. A 5 meter USB 3 cable won't be any faster than USB 2.

  • I had good results with usb 2.0 for 8 m. No variation in throughput, and only one cable was good quality, the 5 m one was dirt cheap and thin. However, the joint had to be outside and no matter how well i tried to isolate, still broke down after half the winter. M

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  • @Noxter said: Thank you Corey, I'm going to need to get back with you though since I wasn't completely ready to start investing just yet. Appreciate it!

    About USB, I don't think you can run a USB cable very far (before it starts to lose quality), yes? That and you can't run them outside (I don't think).

    I tried to run a bunch of USB cables to my sons room to run a webcam... it didn't work very well I couldn't get a signal back to the room even @ 5m.

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  • @Soylent said: 5 meters for USB 1.1 and USB 2 (http://www.usb.org/developers/usbfaq/#cab1). 3 meters for USB 3 (http://www.lvr.com/usb3faq.htm#ca_maximum). You can make it longer, but throughput suffers. A 5 meter USB 3 cable won't be any faster than USB 2.

    True.

    @Noxter said: I would also rather not have a DVR as I have a spare server in raid0 with 1TB RE4's. Is this possible? Do I need some sort of TV tuner?

    IMHO right choice. one needs to utilize all possibilities at hand. You can try one of these solutions for video surveillance. I've heard quite good feedback about it (from source I can trust) and it has all of these

    @Noxter said: 1.) cheap(er) 2.) record directly to a home server 3.) streaming capabilities so I never need to step outside to experience the world.

    Foscam FI8910W seems to be a cam with good quality-to-price ratio.

  • @OnTheBrideSide said: Foscam FI8910W seems to be a cam with good quality-to-price ratio.

    I agree. For those in the UK, Ebuyer do a rebadged Foscam FI8910W for 60GBP (incl VAT): http://www.ebuyer.com/260605-xenta-wireless-night-and-day-wireless-ip-network-camera-ip11wcolor. Recommended...

    "Go cheap on rarely used things"

  • The EasyN range is based on Foscam hardware.

  • Okay, let me update this.

    In total I have spent about $190 bones for

    4 CCD cameras ($120): http://www.amazon.com/VideoSecu-Outdoor-Bullet-Security-Infrared/dp/B001IBFSJ8/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1349585686&sr=8-1&keywords=security+camera 4 100 foot cables (ebay, $34 shipped) 1 DVR PCI card ($33 shipped): http://www.amazon.com/VideoSecu-Channel-Security-Surveillance-System/dp/B0044R75JE/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1349585642&sr=8-1&keywords=dvr+pci

    I had an old celeron sitting around (with a 30GB IDE HDD). Have the machine in a central location (closet). Ran an extra router to it to cover more of the house (plus to hook up the "DVR"). All my old routers have no support for dd-wrt (so I ran a cable to it (no problem, it's all under the rug)).

    So what about the 30GB HDD? Well, the machine is purely a receiver, all reads and writes will be done on another server in a different location (via NetDrive). So if a theft noticed the cameras and began to trace the wires, all he would get it a dumby server with no data. Both machines are behind locked doors (dead bolts).

    I'm currently waiting for the cameras to come in... everything else is pretty much setup.

    Pretty neat and so far, happy with it.

  • @Noxter What's your budged for HDD?

  • Well, it's a home server with 2 RE4's. For a total of 2TB in Raid0.

    Problem is NetDrive limits the virtual drive to 524GB. I'll most likely end up rebuilding in Raid1.

    Should get cameras tomorrow. Shipped late for some reason.

    Installed all the wires yesterday and just noticed I had run the wrong ends. Nooooooo! Now I need to rerun everything. That or I splice the two dc cables and switch them.

  • I have a home security system setup with Zoneminder. It has 4 IP cams which can be wireless, but which I ran Ethernet to. Pretty much any ip cam will work with it. You just need to determine the path to the video stream. I am using cheap infrared cams to monitor for motion, and capture events (wansview NC541W). Again, if you are wanting good picture quality, I would increase the budget for the cams.

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