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Video streaming options

Video streaming options

PatsPats Member
edited August 2012 in General

Hi,

One of my client is looking for video streaming services, initial thoughts are on streaming prayers. Initially i'm thinking on LEB and if hits are more then i'll ask client to move on to dedicated. US West would be preferred as pings from asialand...

Now your thoughts :)

Comments

  • JarJar Member

    Live or file based?

  • jcalebjcaleb Moderator

    Pm @ihatetonyy he knows these stuff. i asked him for help before

    Twitter Bootstrap Themes for your software projects. I recommend Prometeus and Catalyst Host

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  • PatsPats Member

    @jarland initially it would be file based

  • JarJar Member

    BuyVM is quite generous with their bandwidth upgrades, and you could certainly start at a low cost and build with them. I believe Fransisco said they were going to add stock to San Jose as well.

    Thanked by 1dragonballz2k
  • jcalebjcaleb Moderator

    for bandwidth, what ihatetonyy did was to use multiple LEBs to distribute the load. For software, I cant remember, I have it in my bookmarks at home

    Twitter Bootstrap Themes for your software projects. I recommend Prometeus and Catalyst Host

  • PatsPats Member

    ok @jcaleb after you reach home and have Tea (no coffee) while passing me those bookmarks :)

  • @Pats said: initial thoughts are on streaming prayers.

    Does this get you better access to the prayer queue? Do they get answered faster? Is which god you pray to important when streaming?

    /sarcasm

    (Sorry I couldn't resist, and yes I realize your probably using English as a second language... just wanted to poke a little fun... I think that some church should stream their service and call it "Streaming Prayers" would make a awesome title :P )

    /troll

    16+ Years IT Experience in Linux/Windows Hosting and Administration

  • I am no fan of priests either, but lets not go over some lines, please :) M

    Who's General Failure, and why is he reading my drive A: ?

  • PatsPats Member

    @thelinuxbug regarding prayers, i'm not sure, actually customer is god :) so i'll stream watever (legal) so long as i grab few more lebs out of it... Oh this leb addiction... @jcaleb have you found any rehab? :p

    Second language yes but stronger than the first IMO. could'nt understand, i remember i read about live church services... in this also jcaleb can throw some light (or need divine light?) :)

  • jcalebjcaleb Moderator

    got the previous comment from ihatetonny:

    I'm using FMLE on my laptop to publish to crtmpserver across a few LEBs.

    The server is beautifully coded -- it barely takes any memory. The server that feeds most of the others (and takes in connections) is a Hostig 128MB KVM in LA, and there's memory left over for nginx to still run and proxy in RTMPT connections. I just finished up a HS graduation broadcast using the setup.

    Twitter Bootstrap Themes for your software projects. I recommend Prometeus and Catalyst Host

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  • jcalebjcaleb Moderator

    this is the software for streaming in leb:

    http://www.rtmpd.com/

    Twitter Bootstrap Themes for your software projects. I recommend Prometeus and Catalyst Host

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  • ihatetonyyihatetonyy Member
    edited August 2012

    For live content:

    Use Flash Media Live Encoder (or Wirecast if you're flush with cash/have special hardware requirements that FMLE will not satisfy, such as HDV input) for streaming to the server, and crtmpserver (linked above) to stream over RTMP.

    The downside is no iPhone support. You can get the the commercial version of crtmpserver to handle that, or on events where it's needed, use a per-event license of Wowza on an LEB with sufficiently large memory.

    You can scale the setup across multiple servers with the proxypublish application in crtmpserver & DNS trickery of your choice. I've got an ugly small PHP 'panel' of sorts that handles creating configuration files to manage this semi-automatically.

    VPS6 & Hostigation in LA and BuyVM in SJ get my votes for best on the west-coast, also.

    For prerecorded content:

    Encode to MP4. Use nginx + MP4 module (integrated) to serve the files and allow for skipping around. JWPlayer on the frontend with HTML5 fallback configured. This should allow users of iDevices, Androids, and desktop users to view from one file, whether over Flash or HTML5.

    My advice for prerecorded content though is to really give YouTube a hard look. It's popular for a reason.

    "We are in a prison drama. This is like The Shawshank Redemption, only with more tunneling through shit and no fucking redemption."
  • @ihatetonyy said: HTML5 fallback configured

    HTML5 fallback from flash :( Me sad :( M

    Who's General Failure, and why is he reading my drive A: ?

  • @Maounique said: HTML5 fallback from flash :( Me sad :(

    I suspect you can do it the other way too, but fortunately/unfortunately depending on how you'd look at it, Flash is still the de facto standard for video playback.. especially among the average non-LET user.

    "We are in a prison drama. This is like The Shawshank Redemption, only with more tunneling through shit and no fucking redemption."
  • PatsPats Member
    edited August 2012

    sorry i was travelling and couldn't respond. the client shared with me some details of a quotation he got. In the quotation Streaming server(Flash server would not support iphone, right?) is hosted at the provider, Client has to send data from his PC to the streaming server, And clients PC need to have Blackmagic pro streaming card which i think is this? http://www.amazon.com/Blackmagic-Design-Intensity-Pro-Editing/dp/B001CN9GEA

    Now the client says can start live stream in few months time.

  • @Pats said: Flash server would not support iphone, right?

    Adobe's Flash Media * Server (FMIS, FMS, etc.) support HTTP Live Streaming, which is what you need for iOS & can be used on Android 3.0+ devices that don't have Flash installed.

    Blackmagic Pro card is useless if you're going to be limited to SD. I use a Canon HV40 nearly exclusively, and that spits out video usable in FMLE over Firewire/DV. If you have any cheap DV camcorders and/or a firewire card laying around, you may want to investigate that route.

    "We are in a prison drama. This is like The Shawshank Redemption, only with more tunneling through shit and no fucking redemption."
  • JarJar Member

    I like Wowza over flash server.

  • @jarland said: I like Wowza over flash server.

    Indeed, it's much less expensive. But if you're investing in a hosted service, then hell, may as well go for the standard?

    "We are in a prison drama. This is like The Shawshank Redemption, only with more tunneling through shit and no fucking redemption."
  • PatsPats Member

    @jarland said: Wowza Requirements from wowza website: As a minimum we recommend a quad core system with at least 1 GB of RAM per core. To get the most throughput out of Wowza Media Server software we suggest you use RAID 0 or RAID 10 configurations with at least 2 or more disks in the array. Depending upon your application and load, you may need more or less horsepower

    What about the No. of simultaneous users? What should be the min. LEB specs.

    If go the Wowza way, say a Quad core with 8 GB Ram Dedicated + Wowza can handle roughly how many simultaneous hits?

  • JarJar Member
    edited August 2012

    @Pats Wowza isn't appropriate for a LEB. It uses Java, quite heavily too. I only prefer it as an alternative to Flash Media Server, which also is not appropriate for a LEB. The best choice for a low end box would be crtmpserver, but you exclude H264 only devices and you don't have the pause/rewind capability you can get from Wowza.

    As for how many hits on that...I'd say bandwidth would cap you before anything else. Although the DVR feature can slowly chip away at disk I/O, so they usually recommend a RAID0 setup for maximum performance (I'm aware of the dangers there).

  • PatsPats Member
    edited August 2012

    Yeah @jarland , i was asking about min. LEB specs with crtmpserver on mind..

    and if go the Wowza way, any good Dedicated providers (and value for money) along the US-west?

    thanks

  • ihatetonyyihatetonyy Member
    edited August 2012

    @Pats: If you go the route of licensed servers, look into Evostream. It's a closed-source crtmpserver with HTTP Live Streaming and lots of other goodies, and should use roughly the same amount of resources as crtmpserver. It is, unfortunately, expensive, and it doesn't look like they offer per-event licenses as Wowza does. I'm not sure if I am allowed to repeat the price I was quoted in March, but rest assured it is in the same league as a Wowza perpetual license.

    RAM for either should not be a worry. I run eleven instances but for most of the events earlier in the year, the load mainly hit two west-coast LEBs. One was a 512MB OVZ BuyVM, and the other a 128MB KVM Hostigation. For a real high-load example, read Tinychat's VP of Engineering's post about the transition from Red5 to crtmpserver/Evostream. Key bits:

    "We have been using RTMPD/Evostream at Tinychat very successfully over the last few months, replacing our old Red5 setup of 100+ dedicated servers. We are a video chat service with about 20-25,000 concurrent users. Among the benefits we've gotten with RTMPD:

    Cut the number of physical boxes in 50% Increased the number of server instances by 50%, from 1 per box to 3 per box. Moved to smaller and cheaper servers. Overall hosting expenditures have been reduced by ~70% monthly.

    Tinychat is now utterly I/O bound. I've saturated a gigabit link with three RTMPD instances, 1000 active users, using <1 GB of resident RAM total and plenty of CPU to spare.

    ...

    The only reason we still have so many boxes is to stay under our bandwidth quota."

    A large component may be making sure that you spread over the load or talk to your provider(s) in advance. Your crtmpserver instances will probably be bound by nothing other than port speed, which is of course a shared resource.

    "We are in a prison drama. This is like The Shawshank Redemption, only with more tunneling through shit and no fucking redemption."
  • JarJar Member
    edited August 2012

    @Pats Dacentec. We've got a wowza server running there with excellent results. Their upstream providers seem to be a good mix for the price.

    The problem with evostream, for me, is that it's designed around streaming existing streams rather than live. So to use it's full potential you end up rebroadcasting a broadcast, which is inefficient in my opinion. Although efficiency has to include physical resource usage which it does extremely well minimizing.

  • PatsPats Member
    edited August 2012

    @jarland you mean like this one? - http://www.webhostingtalk.com/showthread.php?t=1181848 . This for $65 + $55(wowza). Its bandwidth is only 10TB, makes me think if our 2218@datashack@20TB can also work? (came in mind as its renewal is due.. :p )

    Or not sure if i should start with edis plan(though quite costly than the above combination):

    HD Premium Live 50 GB diskspace 150 Concurrent streams at any one time Live streaming up to 1080p € 199,-- / Month

    any other provider (cheaper :p ) than edis?

  • gsrdgrdghdgsrdgrdghd Member without signature

    I believe Amazon EC2/Cloudfront offers virtual machines with Wowza Media Server or some other kind of streaming setup. You should check them out too.

  • PatsPats Member

    any other provider (cheaper :p ) than edis?

  • @Pats said: any other provider (cheaper :p ) than edis?

    Amazon Cloudfront do offer FMIS for $5/mo IIRC. Bandwidth etc are obviously on top of that.

    @jarland said: The problem with evostream, for me, is that it's designed around streaming existing streams rather than live

    I've never used it, and having my first Wowza experience on Sunday. From the complex marketing speak I was sent, I was under the impression Evostream could pretty much handle any streaming situation.. and possibly make me some great toast.

    "We are in a prison drama. This is like The Shawshank Redemption, only with more tunneling through shit and no fucking redemption."
  • PatsPats Member

    @ihatetonyy Thanks i'll look into Amazon Cloudfront in detail tonight after my current travelling.

    Also, how do you guys send the live stream? Is there any software which reads the camera through usb and streams to Cloudfront/wowza? Or have to capture the feed through camera software, convert to vlc format and then use vlc etc. to stream to Cloudfront/wowza?

  • @Pats: What type of camera are you using? If you are using a DV camera, plug it in and use Adobe Flash Media Live Encoder. If your camera goes over HDMI, you will want to use some form of a Blackmagic card and still FMLE.

    If you need special things like scoreboards and the like that must be present in the video stream, go Wirecast. Be forewarned, it is expensive as hell. Diamonds are cheap in comparison.

    "We are in a prison drama. This is like The Shawshank Redemption, only with more tunneling through shit and no fucking redemption."
  • PatsPats Member
    edited August 2012

    @ihatetonyy yeah i have DV camera, but i think client may record an event with studio quality camera. Adobe Flash Media Live Encoder, is it Free? i couldn't find any pricing details, searched Adobe Store also its not there. Download.com mentions Price: Free in the Specs.

    I was reading about Amazon S3/Cloudfront, more details i got for file streaming - put your files on S3, create bucket, stream that from CloudFront. Downloading Flash Media Live Encoder, hope it has the answer to dynamically changing the contents of the bucket.

    just remembered, 3-4 months back when the client had first contacted, i had used the services of http://www.longtailvideo.com/bits-on-the-run/pricing/ to show him a streaming demo , their Free 1 GB space & 5 GB bandwidth is good for hobby/ small scale streaming.

    @ihatetonyy said: go Wirecast. Be forewarned, it is expensive as hell. Diamonds are cheap in comparison

    nah.. i'll go for Diamonds instead - a small one, maybe in my budget :p

    a good song for @gbshouse @gsrdgrdghd @ihatetonyy @jarland @jcaleb @Maounique @Pats and LET -

    for only @TheLinuxBug
    dare to poke again? :p

  • This is Adobe's page for FMLE. It's free, and if you're using a device that spits out what it likes it is a godsend.

    DV cameras spit out what it likes. Blackmagic devices spit out what it likes. HDV cameras don't, though.. as I have learned far too well.

    My suggestion -- and repeated YouTube video daily until the album is released:

    "We are in a prison drama. This is like The Shawshank Redemption, only with more tunneling through shit and no fucking redemption."
  • PatsPats Member

    @ihatetonyy yeah i was on the same page of FMLE and was confused with the wordings in the centre 'Try it today', i have downloaded - will try it everyday :p

    Pet Shop Boys !! reminds childhood's great listening memories - Always on my Mind, Its a Sin, Go West... :)

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  • PatsPats Member

    @ihatetonyy i installed FMLE, will test it later.

    How do other people put logo + news/advertisements (say text streamer on the lower portion of the screen)? for example:

    For File Streaming, i suppose you have to use a Video Editor and paste the logo + Adverts etc. But how in Live Stream??

    (few months back i had also tested NCH software's Broadcom, Broadcasting Software. It has option to put logo. I haven't tested it enough, though i read unsatisfactory results with it.)

  • That's more up Wirecast's alley. If you muck with software like ManyCam, you can take in your video, add stuff like that inside ManyCam, then have FMLE take in the video from ManyCam.

    But if you want an AIO software package to do it, look to Wirecast.

    "We are in a prison drama. This is like The Shawshank Redemption, only with more tunneling through shit and no fucking redemption."
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