Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

Sign In with OpenID
Advertise on LowEndTalk.com

In this Discussion

(Not so )interesting (but pure BS) idea

(Not so )interesting (but pure BS) idea

TazTaz Disabled
edited July 2012 in General

http://simple-webhosting.eu/

http://www.webhostingtalk.com/showthread.php?goto=newpost&t=1174610

I am not related with them in any way. But this idea sounded like a plan, is it something like chroot? (dreamhost vps style!)

Time is good and also bad. Life is short and that is sad. Dont worry be happy thats my style. No matter what happens i won't lose my smile!

Tagged:

Comments

  • This caught my eye as well, at first glance i thought it would just be CloudLinux but it seems they have wrote their own control panel etc.

  • You don't get IPv4

  • DamianDamian Member
    To save system resources and the hard work of setting up an internet server, the VPS'es have access to shared services outside their VPS, like a web server and database server. This makes their platform as easy and economic as shared web hosting, but as versatile as VPS hosting.

    Sounds dangerous

    I am no longer affiliated with IPXcore.
  • Ash_HawkridgeAsh_Hawkridge Member
    edited July 2012

    Not really, shared hosting accounts share the same web and DB server, its not really any different :P

    And welcome back :)

  • DamianDamian Member

    @GetKVM_Ash said: Not really, shared hosting accounts share the same web and DB server, its not really any different :P

    I meant.. if you're not using your VPS for websites, then what do they expect people to use it for? Other than VPN...

    @GetKVM_Ash said: And welcome back :)

    Thanks!

    I am no longer affiliated with IPXcore.
  • PADPAD Member

    This just a shell, right? Shells are old school but still sold a lot.. this isn't inventive AT ALL.

  • @PAD said: This just a shell, right? Shells are old school but still sold a lot.. this isn't inventive AT ALL.

    Says you get full root access.

    Disclosure: I work for Query Foundry LLC.
    I own DA International Group Ltd.
  • TaylorTaylor Member

    @LiquidHost said: Says you get full root access.

    >

    5.98 for "pro" that gives you full root.

    http://simple-webhosting.eu/#pages/moreinfo

    I know, I'm Dale Maily.

  • PADPAD Member
    edited July 2012

    @LiquidHost just a shell/jail - I've seen this type of stuff before its not revolutionary it ISN'T a virtual server by far, you're just getting a slice of unsecured cake and access to some cherries a few feet away.

  • dnomdnom Member

    Virtualized environment Virtualization based on OpenVZ makes our shared web hosting accounts as powerful and secure as VPS hosting. Every customer has their own Virtual Private Server, a virtual environment that provides the functionality of a dedicated server. This is more secure than traditional shared web hosting, and allows for more customization, for the same price.

    I know OpenVZ is not considered as a virtual environment by some. But it's good enough for most things I do.

  • @PAD said: @LiquidHost just a shell/jail - I've seen this type of stuff before its not revolutionary it ISN'T a virtual server by far, you're just getting a slice of unsecured cake and access to some cherries a few feet away.

    http://simple-webhosting.eu/#pages/moreinfo

    You get root access and ipv4 on the 6 euro plan. Just a normal ovz VPS. But I guess with custom coded panel.

    Disclosure: I work for Query Foundry LLC.
    I own DA International Group Ltd.
  • Hi, I am from Simple-webhosting.eu and would like to answer some of the questions on this page.

    • What do you expect people to use their VPS for if there's a shared web server? PHP and CGI scripts run inside the VPS'es, and in case of Pro accounts customers may install their own services like streaming servers. Most security threats for shared web hosts come from user scripts, and that is what it solves. We had a hacked account last week and it has never been easier to stop the spam mail flood ($ vzctl stop ctid).

    • Is it just a shell/jail? No, OpenVZ provides isolation at the kernel level and virtual network interfaces. Hence it's called "operating system level virtualization".

    If you want root access for a basic account, sign up and ask support, we're currently testing it!

  • DamianDamian Member
    edited July 2012

    @lennartack said: If you want root access for a basic account, sign up and ask support, we're currently testing it!

    So you give out openvz containers, but the openvz containers don't have root access inside their own containers? Or am I missing something here?

    I am no longer affiliated with IPXcore.
  • That's right. The reason for that is that certain binaries and libraries, as well as the MySQL socket file are shared among containers in order to accomplish fluent co-operation with the web server. We also want to prevent unknowing users from breaking their websites.

  • JarJar Member

    Sounds like fancy wording. It's a VPS or it's not a VPS. It's shared hosting or it's not shared hosting. You can dress up a VPS and tell me that my shared hosting has dedicated resources thanks to such isolation, but all I hear is "We'd rather not optimize our system for maximum performance for all, but rather give everyone a small slice and let them screw it up."

    Maybe I'm just reading into it wrong.

  • TazTaz Disabled

    So this is what you guys have, OVZ-VPs with shared (Free) sql server. While this is not managed so users will need set everything from scratch (breaks the basic purpose of shared hosting). So if they gets hacked for sutpid server security, all you have to do is point your finger to your clients and say, "you are stupid and it is your fault".

    Sounds like fancy words for a simple ovz vps.

    Time is good and also bad. Life is short and that is sad. Dont worry be happy thats my style. No matter what happens i won't lose my smile!

  • PADPAD Member
    edited July 2012

    This is a shell/jail - You guys can say it isn't all you want but IT IS.

    I've offered a shell/jail service before, the point is :

    You have access to external MySQL - Shared with other clients. You have access to external Webhosting - Shared with other clients. You have shell access to a node/vps/whatever else - bunch of services like above are blocked but you can use it for whatever, coding, development.

    And this sort of stuff is old school but its still sold by many providers, this was before virtualization came about to be commercially available.

    This is nothing unique or special, oh and you get a panel with Shell/Jail too - there is no difference here. The maybe slight difference is you're not offering ipv4, cutting down your cost even more. Lol.

  • Call it a shell/jail if you want, I call it a VPS.

    Thanks for your feedback. Just two more comments:

    all I hear is "We'd rather not optimize our system for maximum performance for all, but rather give everyone a small slice and let them screw it up."

    This is not really true. VPS'es are perfectly capable of sharing system resources. The burst RAM feature allows us to give customers a lot of space, and if no one else uses the CPU you can use its full capacity. OpenVZ containers require only about 2 MB of ram so it doesn't cost a a lot either.

    So if they gets hacked for sutpid server security, all you have to do is point your finger to your clients and say, "you are stupid and it is your fault".

    If it's the customer's fault it's the customer's and if it's the host's it's the host's. A VPS/jail doesn't change that fact, and we do not incorrectly point fingers at customers. The only difference is that now only the customer who got hacked is the victim, and with traditional web hosting the whole server could go down.

  • @lennartack said: This is not really true. VPS'es are perfectly capable of sharing system resources. The burst RAM feature allows us to give customers a lot of space, and if no one else uses the CPU you can use its full capacity. OpenVZ containers require only about 2 MB of ram so it doesn't cost a a lot either.

    2MB if there is no OS installed.

    Disclosure: I work for Query Foundry LLC.
    I own DA International Group Ltd.
  • TazTaz Disabled

    @lennartack said: If it's the customer's fault it's the customer's and if it's the host's it's the host's. A VPS/jail doesn't change that fact, and we do not incorrectly point fingers at customers. The only difference is that now only the customer who got hacked is the victim, and with traditional web hosting the whole server could go down.

    BS. I have done shard hosting for more then 3 years. If your server is properly secured and optimized, (mod_security for example), 95% time clients wont get hacked. Even if they do, that won't be able to take control of the whole server. So you can cut that crap out. If I am buying a shared hosting, I will not be responsible for server security but only the security off my site. What you have is basic unmanaged vps with some fancy term, with service lower than average LEB. All you are doing as I have pointed above.

    You must put a note that, users of your so called "V shared hosting" will have to be familiar with linux.

    Cut the crap and man up.

    Time is good and also bad. Life is short and that is sad. Dont worry be happy thats my style. No matter what happens i won't lose my smile!

  • Haha, okay one more comment. Debian is installed by default. The init process takes about 1 MB ram, and the other is taken by the kernel.

  • TazTaz Disabled

    @lennartack said: This is not really true. VPS'es are perfectly capable of sharing system resources. The burst RAM feature allows us to give customers a lot of space, and if no one else uses the CPU you can use its full capacity. OpenVZ containers require only about 2 MB of ram so it doesn't cost a a lot either.

    Time for you to hit openvz and linux wiki.

    Time is good and also bad. Life is short and that is sad. Dont worry be happy thats my style. No matter what happens i won't lose my smile!

  • TazTaz Disabled

    @lennartack said: Haha, okay one more comment. Debian is installed by default. The init process takes about 1 MB ram, and the other is taken by the kernel.

    What about user process? That take memory out, what about php scripts? Mail server, Apache and the rest?

    Time is good and also bad. Life is short and that is sad. Dont worry be happy thats my style. No matter what happens i won't lose my smile!

  • JarJar Member
    edited July 2012

    @lennartack said: This is not really true. VPS'es are perfectly capable of sharing system resources. The burst RAM feature allows us to give customers a lot of space, and if no one else uses the CPU you can use its full capacity. OpenVZ containers require only about 2 MB of ram so it doesn't cost a a lot either.

    I could say all of that with shared hosting, except the 2MB overhead. Plus one well configured web server > 35 however the heck configured web servers.

  • lennartacklennartack Member
    edited July 2012

    @NinjaHawk said: Even if they do, that won't be able to take control of the whole server.

    But they will be able to overload the server and send a lot of spam, forcing you to shut down the mail system. Have you never had these kind of issues during your three years of experience?

    @NinjaHawk said: Time for you to hit openvz and linux wiki.

    There's only one linux kernel running if you use OpenVZ, that of the host node. The 2MB is based on my own observations and may be a little more, but show me the corresponding wiki page detailing OpenVZ ram usage if I am completely wrong.

    @NinjaHawk said: What about user process? That take memory out, what about php scripts?

    They also use memory if you have shared web hosting, so there is no difference in that case.

    @NinjaHawk said: Mail server

    Sendmail is a setuid root binary (so no difference compared to normal shared hosting) and the sendmail daemon is not running in VPS'es.

    @NinjaHawk said: Apache

    There's only a web server running outside the containers (which forwards request to cgi binaries inside containers). Have you actually read any of the service description?

  • TazTaz Disabled
    edited July 2012

    @lennartack said: But they will be able to overload the server and send a lot of spam, forcing you to shut down the mail system. Have you never had these kind of issues during your three years of experience?

    You do not need a vps to control that. Iptables can take of mass emailing. If you have ever used Cpanel, this feature is actually built in (limit hourly email), if another panel, use strong firewall rules, block port 25 , suspend the client or simply disable mailin ability.

    Edit: What makes you think that ovz won't get hacked and send spam? (Unless you have throttled mailing via iptables.

    @lennartack said: What about user process? That take memory out, what about php scripts?

    Typically the user can use limited resource on a shared hosting level, you do not need vps to control those settings. /but my reply was towards your 2mb usage comment.

    @lennartack said: Sendmail is a setuid root binary (so no difference compared to normal shared hosting) and the sendmail daemon is not running in VPS'es.

    Not everyone will use sendmail.

    @lennartack said: There's only a web server running outside the containers (which forwards request to cgi binaries inside containers). Have you actually read any of the service description?

    I did read your description. And your descritions are confusing.

    do you know that single ovz container can crush your whole node if it is not managed properly? While with latest technology and less crowded server, basic shared hosting can't. Take a look at cloud linux+cagefs. Stop making argument that won't make sense. Plus what stops a user to install apahce and mysql on your so called "Vshared" hosting where they have "root" access? You could have atleast went dream host vps way (chrooted debian install only).

    Time is good and also bad. Life is short and that is sad. Dont worry be happy thats my style. No matter what happens i won't lose my smile!

  • JarJar Member
    edited July 2012

    @NinjaHawk said: Plus what stops a user to install apahce and mysql on your so called "Vshared" hosting where they have "root" access?

    If something does, I suspect the container is nothing more than a gimmick seeing as how your required functions are outside of it and if your uses inside were then limited so strictly, well...why have it.

  • TazTaz Disabled
    edited July 2012

    @jarland said: If something does, I suspect the container is nothing more than a gimmick seeing as how your required functions are outside of it and if your uses inside were then limited so strictly, well...why have it.

    But what stops a user from installing own server, mail server and more? Taking the fact that you have "full root access" and you can run apache on different port (If they are blocking port) same can be done for sql and everything else.

    Time is good and also bad. Life is short and that is sad. Dont worry be happy thats my style. No matter what happens i won't lose my smile!

  • Pointless to discuss, made an account and sent an email to get the root permission as promised. We will see what it is.

    Disclosure: I work for Query Foundry LLC.
    I own DA International Group Ltd.
  • gsrdgrdghdgsrdgrdghd Member
    edited July 2012

    lol @NinjaHawk i don't understand your hate/bashing and editing the title.

    @lennartack is there actually anywhere an explanation of what your site is supposed to do and how its supposed to work? All i can see are sliders to adjust disk quota and monthly traffic and a describtion that sounds like normal shared hosting.

  • You have a lot of question! Wish my customers where that studious. If you want me to explain in more detail why I chose for this system send an email to sales as I am currently short in time.

    @NinjaHawk said: You do not need a vps to control that. Iptables can take of mass emailing. If you have ever used Cpanel, this feature is actually built in (limit hourly email), if another panel, use strong firewall rules, block port 25 , suspend the client or simply disable mailin ability.

    Edit: What makes you think that ovz won't get hacked and send spam? (Unless you have throttled mailing via iptables.

    It is a matter of the right place to implement security matters. OVZ solves a lot of security problems in one because it's done on the proper level for sharing a server - the kernel. Of course you can use iptables, suphp, mod_security, open_basedir, safe_mode, and so on as well, but this is more likely to fail than strict kernel-level isolation. Using strict firewall rules also limits the capabilities of your customers, which I don't like.

    @NinjaHawk said: But what stops a user from installing own server, mail server and more?

    Nothing, they are allowed to. But it is recommended to use the shared servers since that saves them a lot of RAM.

  • lennartacklennartack Member
    edited July 2012

    @gsrdgrdghd said: is there actually anywhere an explanation of what your site is supposed to do and how its supposed to work?

    I agree we provide little information at the moment. We are working on better explanations in a FAQ and hope to learn more about how to do that from discussions like this one.

  • @lennartack The SSH does not seem to be working, as the server rejects my connections. Also I have requested a root upgrade at the support email, as you suggested somewhere in this thread.

    Disclosure: I work for Query Foundry LLC.
    I own DA International Group Ltd.
  • HC_RoHC_Ro Member

    I cant figure out what this is, I dont see anything inventive or new.

    In a nut shell, are you just enabling a jailed SSH? and for premium your giving away a VPS for every hosting account?

  • @LiquidHost you were probably connecting to the wrong address, check your inbox.

  • subigosubigo Member

    Actually, if done correctly, this is exactly what OpenVZ was supposed to be used for... just sayin'.

  • TazTaz Disabled

    @gsrdgrdghd Thread title changed, Well to be honest, when i first read this, I thought it was something unique. Now when I read this again, It is nothing unique. All you get is small ovz vps with free sql and dns hosting(?). Nothing interesting, nothing new.

    Reason for my hate, I have learned a lot of tricks regarding how to handle shared hosting servers, client and user. I have 0 negative feedback from more than 20k+ users that were hosted with my old company. All those limit/positive thing noted by the provider in question can be done on a shared hosting level with an ease. I know many would agree on that. To me this sounds like a (no-offense if you are not@provider) lazy shared hosting provider who doesn't want to deal with server optimization, security and rest. What he is doing here is nothing close to shared hosting. This is not what shared hosting client should do (note: 80% or more shared hosting clients are either webmaster or average guy next door, who have no idea about linu, never heard of iptables, apache, bash scripts and other fancy words. All they care about is having and mainting a website that "works".) This is false advertising and nothing else. Why not simply provide VPS hosting with free sql hosting? This is not a vps nor a shared hosting. This like halfeaten leftover pie from a strangers plate. Neither you want to throw it away nor you want to use it.

    Time is good and also bad. Life is short and that is sad. Dont worry be happy thats my style. No matter what happens i won't lose my smile!

  • Appears to have plenty of access and you are placed on a 256MB ram vm...

    What worries me, however is this: http://i.imgur.com/AX372.png

    Disclosure: I work for Query Foundry LLC.
    I own DA International Group Ltd.
  • JarJar Member

    @NinjaHawk said: What he is doing here is nothing close to shared hosting.

    Actually it sounds like he is doing all of what you and I both assumed he wasn't, because it looks like we both had the same impression. What it looks like he is doing is providing shared hosting and a sandbox to sit next to it for some unknown reason.

    Thanked by 1Taz
  • JarJar Member

    @LiquidHost said: What worries me, however is this: http://i.imgur.com/AX372.png

    France? ;)

  • Disclosure: I work for Query Foundry LLC.
    I own DA International Group Ltd.
  • TazTaz Disabled

    @LiquidHost, can you install Apache PLEASE!!!

    Time is good and also bad. Life is short and that is sad. Dont worry be happy thats my style. No matter what happens i won't lose my smile!

  • AmitzAmitz Member

    No... Not a Kimsufi Celeron?

    Got divided by zero. Three times. Feel better ever since...

  • Hehe, should have put you on a newer node. Anyways, we provide low-cost hosting, that's what it is. What @NinjaHawk calls lazy I would call cost saving.

    @NinjaHawk, sorry if the wording has misled you. We could not find any host with the same setup, so we used the word unique. I think our setup really solves a lot of issues with shared hosting and is an advantage for the customer and most system administrator I spoke with agree with that, but I understand you like the traditional way better.

    This is really my last post, feel free to tear apart al that's left ;).

  • JarJar Member

    @NinjaHawk said: can you install Apache PLEASE!!!

    Celeron will timeout during installation.

  • Mods, give him his 15 points. Oh sorry i forgot im on LET now.

    Thanked by 1Jar
  • TazTaz Disabled

    @GetKVM_Ash said: Mods, give him his 15 points. Oh sorry i forgot im on LET now.

    15 for provider bashing with out using+ 10 for being rude +5 for not useful post. 30=I am banned lol.

    Time is good and also bad. Life is short and that is sad. Dont worry be happy thats my style. No matter what happens i won't lose my smile!

  • @GetKVM_Ash said: Mods, give him his 15 points. Oh sorry i forgot im on LET now.

    Dont tempt the fate.. The next time you are going to get banned not just 15 points...

    /jk

    Disclosure: I work for Query Foundry LLC.
    I own DA International Group Ltd.
Sign In or Register to comment.