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Online.net inventing French laws?
I've had a dedi with online.net for some time, registered to my business. I recently changed my business from sole trader to limited, and opened a ticket with online.net to update my details so I can continue to claim tax back on server rental. For the record, the business name is the same (just Ltd. added) and the registered address is the same. Also the business name is very unique - nothing else remotely like it in my country. All this can be checked on my country's business registration database.
Online.net are interpreting my request as though I was trying to transfer the server to someone else, and say they can't update the details because it breaks some unspecified French law. I'm seeking clarification, but am calling BS. Anyone have any insights into this? Tempted just to give the business to one of the dedi providers here, but could really do without the hassle of migrating.
Comments
I have no idea about French laws but honestly what could you do otherwise? They can just not do it for you because they don't feel like to...
You can always argue with them but I am not sure anything good will come out of it.
Try posting on their forums if you haven't already.
Isn't it technically two separate entities that have similar names? E.g. XYZ transferred asset to XYZ Ltd. No clue about the French law bits. Do you have to update the name since its common for people to potentially leave out (purposely or inadvertently) Ltd, LLC, Inc, etc
Yes - the business entities are separate - and have different numbers for tax purposes, but same name, address, and owners. I've made the change with other providers with no problem. I can't think of a good reason why it would be illegal in French law, even if the server was being transferred to another entity entirely. Certainly I can see that it makes some work for online.net, but I'm not buying the French law story.
@kcaj I'll see how they respond to the ticket, and post on the forum if I get no satisfaction.
Meanwhile, I've got backups and am ready to jump ship. I had a failed payment with them (card was maxed out) that has since been resolved - their form letter said:
Stay classy, online.net
If online.net isn't comlying with your request, why not circumvent the process.
Not a big deal, rent your dedi for your Ltd co from your sole trader entity. For this you need not worry about french laws but just your own local laws.
Yep this is technically true and online.net are ultra anal, don't know about outside of the UK but in the UK you cant actually legally trade as a sole trader and a LTD under the same name at the same time at the same address.
Best suggestion would be to find someone French with perfect English and ask them to write up the scenario in French, I know they offer some English support but business specifics may be beyond the level of English they have as clearly they do not understand.
Why don't you just make a second account with the new company name and ask the server to be transferred there?
Sorry if I wasn't clear. Sole trader business changed to Ltd. There is only one business - the sole trader is gone, replaced by the Ltd.
You think this will work? Has to be worth a shot, I suppose. Thanks for the idea.
No, unfortunately, it is not the same and, yes, it is the French, or, to be accurate, eurozone's laws. If you change VAT number, it is a different business. Your sole trader tax profile should still exist. In EU, it is the profile of "personal business" that is not a company but the personal tax profile that follows in your entire life (it is European law going back in early '90s, when they started to prepare for the euro transition).
So, your sole trader profile still exist and the ltd company is, technically, a new company, even if in reality it is just you wanted to extend your business. I suppose Online.net could be more flexible, they aren't. But they have right when they say that typically you are trying to move your server to someone else. Business are not human beings but logistic entities.
In any case, you should ask your accountant to have a written valid opinion you maybe could send to online.net .
UK is different, their economy laws are in a big part different from Eurozone, because (between others) of the different currency. I don't know the UK law frame, but you (British people) don't follow eurozone's laws.
So online.net refuse to let me update details and refuse to let me transfer the server to a new account for the new business. I have no option but to rebuild the server somewhere else (you can bet it won't be with online.net), and move all the websites over. I'm furious.
Thanks for the reply, but are you sure about this?
I know have a personal tax number for me as an individual, like US social security number, which is assigned to every citizen employed or self employed. I had a business registration number and a VAT number for the sole trader business, but both of those numbers are now defunct, as I am now trading under a new business reg no. and VAT no. In fact it would be an offence to use the old numbers.
Unfortunately, on our side we can't move your server from an account to another.
Regards, Julien @ Online.net.
No offense or anything, but that does seem like something that is at least going to cost you one customer and it might be something to look at.
I realize you cannot change the account as the VAT number changes and you have to keep records, but having the flexibility to move servers between accounts would definitely be helpful in these cases.
Agreed. I've had to make alterations on more than a dozen other accounts as a result of the business change, and it was not an issue for any of them.
Well this is awkward as I would be doing something similar in the future too.
It would be indeed an offense if you use your old VAT. But, even if your sole trade VAT number was different for your personal taxation one (that mean that your sole trade company was a form of individual company with just one owner), the fact is that every different VAT number is handled like a different taxation entity for economy authorities. It does not matter if one company is owned by the same single person with a second company, the two companies inside EU are a completely different thing.
A smaller provider can handle things different. But, online.net with (I guess) thousand of costumers and, usually, medium to big ones, cannot handle their clients with a personal approach, especially when the accountants are involved to this (usually a guy from tech support is more flexible, but if the accounting dept. is asked to move reg. of physical nodes to another account, they will probably refuse it due to restrict policies of what they are flexible to do and what not).
At the end of the day, this is the price we have to pay dealing with big companies. They can give us way better prices for what we buy, but when it comes to communications, all we are having in the other side of the phone line or support is an employe and we cannot reach higher scale of executives to handle our problems, except if we are big customers.
And they have not the flexibility to make custom deals or arrangements even with our contract with them...
I appreciate everyone's feedback.
Time to search for some dedi deals :-)
Problem is I think for Europe based dedi's the price from online.net is hard to beat!
Personally, I would just change the VAT number in your online.net account (which you can do yourself). A VAT invoice needs to show "the customer's name or trading name", so should be acceptable to HMRC.
However I appreciate the principle of looking for another supplier....... just don't [objectively] think it's worth the hassle.
@squibs
www.datashack.net
Thank you. I'm facepalming so hard right now - had no idea I could change this myself, in fact online.net told me it couldn't be done. The VAT number change will probably get me where I need to be in terms of compliance with the tax man - the business name is not editable, but it's correct except that it's missing the ltd. part.
I don't want to give online.net my business anymore, but I'm too busy to migrate!