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My poor experience with LiquidSolutions
michaelkourlas
Member
Hi all,
I just wanted to let you know that you might not want to choose LiquidSolutions for your next VPS, due to their lack of respect for customer privacy.
I used the company for a few months, then switched to another provider. Today I was conducting a review of all of my online accounts, deleting any accounts that I no longer use. (I do this because I prefer that my personal information is kept only by those who need access to it.) Anyways, I asked LiquidSolutions to delete my account, since it contains my mailing address and phone number, and they refused.
Initially, they said they needed to keep this information for "legal and tax purposes." I pointed out that their privacy policy says nothing about this requirement. They responded that their privacy policy only outlines how information is shared with third parties, and that "as this is not sharing your information it would not be listed there." I pointed out this didn't make any sense - if they weren't going to share the information with anyone, they didn't need to keep it.
I then asked them about the particularities of these "legal and tax" obligations, but they couldn't provide any evidence other than a link to an Australian government webpage on small business recordkeeping requirements. I pointed out that this website says nothing about having to keep customers' personal information.
Eventually they stopped providing any coherent rationale whatsoever, stating simply that "we will not be deleting your account. This is our final decision." I then threatened to seek any available remedies under Australian privacy and data protection law, and to bring my ordeal to the attention of the folks at LowEndBox, and they stated that any further communication would have to be with their lawyers.
What's more, after I attempted to manually delete my personal information, they locked down my profile page and prevented me from making any changes.
I really don't understand why they are so intent on keeping my personal information. The lesson to take from all of this is that there are plenty of low end VPS providers with similar pricing, so it's really not worth your trouble to go with LiquidSolutions.
Comments
I think I put this in the wrong category. Moving it to Reviews.
I don't think any host deletes your account.
Basically every host I've been with refuses to delete my WHMCS account if I no longer want to be with them. But anyway, this needs to change.
Really? That's pretty sad, then. Does anyone know if Australia has any data privacy laws that require businesses keep personal information only as long as it is necessary?
Even if they do delete it, they probably have loads of database backups so it's not like they don't have it, somewhere.
Most countries require that companies hold your information for at least 12 months time. This is for basic record keeping, and in the event that law enforcement officials require your information for investigation (with valid sophena/warrant of course).
Fair enough, but I asked them for evidence of their legal obligations, and they refused to provide me with any.
12 months? We need to keep copies of all issued invoices, for 10 years. On paper.
I assume most of the EU is similar but for example as a UK LTD I have to keep accounting records for 6 years by law, as WHMCS is part of my accounting records I would tell you this if you made that request to me.
Please understand though I don't like it, it is the law none the less, when doing trade with overseas companies the burden of responsibility to find out such things is on you initially pre purchase.
Most countries in the EU have a "companies act of XXXX date" they they are required to abide by and it is usually covered in this act of law. providing the evidence you asked them for if they were in the UK is simple: https://www.gov.uk/running-a-limited-company/company-and-accounting-records I assume Austria is the same @William is pretty savvy on such things for Austrian law perhaps he can assist for AU.
Many years, on paper, copies must be marked as copies (and copy protection) etc. - Complicated in Austria but not much different from UK and alike.
Side note: in the link he provided you which you pasted here it states:
Due to the business type detailed records are kept as they are not cash transactions i.e. subject to only 1 month detailed followed by summary record thus he has to keep them for 5 years.
Alex that runs Liquid host I am sure has no love for the requirement but is subject to it none the less.
No doubt in AU the law is similar to the UK, you have every right to write an official letter requesting removal of records he is however fully entitled to make a charge for this the standard fair charge in the UK would probably be around £50 so if you feel that strongly about it that would be your solution he would then simply replace your records with a reference number that could link back to your written request should the countries treasury of equivalent ever query the record.
Actually LH is part of us now.
I think you're (1) making a mountain out of a molehill and (2) in the wrong and LS is in the right.
You chose to do business with them and give them this information. They have every right, legally and ethically, to keep the information you gave them.
No.
Maybe they want to keep it for marketing purposes, so they can see where their customers have been over the last 3 years?
Maybe they want to analyze where their marketing has been successful?
Maybe they want to make sure one person doesn't sign up with multiple accounts?
Maybe for fraud prevention, internal or external? Maybe for auditing? Maybe for...gosh, a hundred reasons you might want to know who your customers are and have been.
Even if they didn't have any legal obligations, so what?
Your "ordeal"? Indeed, I think we'll need Amnesty International for this.
Frankly, I'm surprised you can even lift your head up long enough to post here, with all you've been through...
Top posting.
I don't have a problem with him keeping transaction records of what I purchased, but he doesn't need my personal information to do that. When I purchase a product from a retailer, they don't ask me for my address, nor do they need it to file their taxes. I fail to see how this is any different.
I disagree. I may or may not have a legal right to have them delete my information, but they certainly do not have a moral right to keep my personal information when I am no longer their customer.
Then those reasons should be listed in their privacy policy, which was not the case here.
If they don't have any legal obligations, then they lied. They said they needed to keep the information for legal and tax purposes.
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You're free to believe that my privacy concerns are unreasonable. I happen to believe many would be concerned if they knew how Liquid Solutions was treating their customers' personal information, which is why I posted this review. Ultimately, it's up to each consumer to decide whether this matters to them.
He absolutely does, detailed accounting records include who you sold it to. and that includes the invoice i.e. the record itself which contains your information.
Like I said it if is that big a deal to you then apply to have it removed, accept the admin fee and move on.
I know you don't like it but they are bound by law.
Transaction records needs the information about who sold what to what buyer.
And I'm still baffled by all people who sign up with their real information and then needs to change it. Why is that so important to you?
But that's clearly not the case, given that your standard brick-and-mortar store rarely asks for a customer's personal information when they buy something.
Anyway, I'm not going to contribute further to this discussion unless and until Liquid Solutions gets back to me about this. All I want is for them to delete my account, now that I am no longer a customer. I think it is unreasonable that they are refusing to do so, and I just thought that people should be aware of this.
That would be classified as a summary record for cash buyers i.e. point of sale/till/register which is not how this transaction was conducted. when was the last time you bought something from ebay/amazon and refused to provide personal info? never.
They are acting within the legal requirements of the country the business was conducted in, please stop trying to drag them through the dirt because you don't happen to agree with the laws they are bound by after the fact.
You're assuming that companies should delete your personal information unless they can show cause why they shouldn't.
That's backwards - companies retain your personal information unless you can show cause why they shouldn't.
If you want to start a crusade to change the law and culture in 191 countries, rock on...but your expectations are outside both the legal requirements and the operating norm of industry.
And you knew that when you signed up. You can't now say "I'm shocked, shocked that you would retain my info" if you didn't clarify before filling out the form, knowing that virtually every online company retains info.
You must not do much online if you refuse to sign up for any service or buy from any merchant that doesn't delete your info when you choose.
BTW...LET has your email address and the IPs you post from...and there's no privacy policy here at all! What if you decide to close your account some day!?!? I think Michael Kourlas's posts will live here undeleted forever...gasp...
Gives out information on the Internet, even uses first and last name as username, expects privacy.
You have every right not to give people your information, and zero right to expect them to hold themselves to your self proclaimed moral standards when based purely on the fact that you hold said standards. Sorry, that's life.
I'm a bit ill at the moment, not feeling okey at all, so I couldn't read the whole thread, neither have checked the ticket.
LH is a part of Query Foundry now and I am sure that the ticket was handled properly by our team members. For those of you, who do not know, I am a part of QF team as well. Anyway, as already was stated - the account information is kept for all kind of purposes - future investigations, accounting purposes, marketing purposes, researches. And on top of that, we are required by law to keep all this information. The desicion was final and we will not be deleting the account.
I live in Australia and every company I have worked at has a policy of a minimum of 6 years record retention.
In my opinion, I don't see what's the big deal. And I'm a happy LH customer. The only thing I don't like about them is their domain's TLD.
LOL...true.
TL;DR. Relatively sure here in Australia all that is required is proof of the transaction. Everything else comes under our privacy act, with which, AFAIK, you can ask to have your personal data deleted. Remember though, IANAL.
In this case, though:
Hence, Australian law has no bearing.
In that case, you should consider adding those uses to your privacy policy.
Which law, if I may ask?
I realize you are unwilling to delete the account, but would you be willing to compromise by doing one or both of the following:
I am not really interested in debating this issue further, but you are actually incorrect. A Liquid Solutions support representative told me himself that Liquid Solutions' parent company, Query Foundry, is based in Australia.
I have no interest in arguing with you as facts have never worked. There's a lot more than the privacy act, including the telecommunications act etc. I'm not going to act like legal advise here, but don't spread false information.
Please use official support channels.