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Will VPS ever get priced in CENTS?

Will VPS ever get priced in CENTS?

IntcsIntcs Member
edited April 2012 in General

When IPv6 becomes the standard and also with hardware and price changes, do you believe VPS will be priced in cents (or close to it)? Or it might arrive to a point and just stop there like somehow what is in shared hosting?

Please beware that his parents are now using the membership to post for their own, together with our precious son..

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  • subigosubigo Member
    edited April 2012

    Some already are. And if some of the rumors about Amazon are true, the business models of most LET/LEB hosts will be dead in 1-2 years anyway.

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  • I imagine once ipv6 comes into play people will stop looking for traditional VPS's and go to the 'cloud', auto scaling, resize downsize, spin up on demand etc. that or everyone is going to go on a massive overselling spree.

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  • @PhilND said: massive overselling spree.

    It's pretty common if you follow the threads. At some point transaction fee's kick in so what will likely happen is hosts will require yearly payments or 'pre filled accounts'.

    Don't expect IPV6 to just roll out at the end of the year and everything is dandy. There is at least a few major ISP's that have no interest to roll any IPV6 this decade.

    Francisco

    BuyVM - OpenVZ & KVM Based / TUN, PPTP, FUSE, SIT & GRE Enabled! / Stallion Control Panel
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  • @subigo said: And if some of the rumors about Amazon are true, the business models of most LET/LEB hosts will be dead in 1-2 years anyway.

    Do tell.

    @PhilND said: I imagine once ipv6 comes into play people will stop looking for traditional VPS's and go to the 'cloud', auto scaling, resize downsize, spin up on demand etc. that or everyone is going to go on a massive overselling spree.

    The VPS vs cloud business model has zero to do with ipv4 vs 6 in my mind.

    Want always on? You want a VPS. Cloud is waaaay too expensive, particularly if you are going to do any significant bandwidth. That $15/year buyvm 128 with 500GB of bandwidth a month will cost you $600/year from Amazon in bandwidth alone.

    Want to size up/down, only run part of the time - sure, sometimes cloud is cheaper.

    My Advice: : VPS Advice
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  • @raindog308 said: And if some of the rumors about Amazon are true, the business models of most LET/LEB hosts will be dead in 1-2 years anyway.

    They've started internal development and testing of an "EC2 for dummies", which will be aimed at non-developers. It's supposed to have a simple to use web-based control panel and IPs that can be dedicated, even after a shutdown. The only cost to users on the basic plan will be bandwidth charges (which by the time it launches will probably be about $0.10/GB).

    Basically a much simpler version of their current "free for a year" offer. And for 99% of LET/LEB users, this will not only be cheaper than most of the $7/month and under offers here, but more stable and won't run the risk of deadpool'ing.

    Thanked by 1Intcs
  • lpnlpn Member

    They are already priced in cents (per day).

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  • taiprestaipres Member
    edited April 2012

    With bandwidth getting increasingly cheaper, as well as hardware i'm sure cloud services will get VPS's down to pennies, but that doesn't mean that's necessarily a good thing. Anytime I think of that I picture the government getting rid of net neutrality and ISP's selling pay what you use internet packages. Say for instance a normal package that allows Facebook, twitter and all the big sites, and then making any other site or service an "extra" package that you would need to buy. Like on demand etc....:(

    image

    I really don't like the concept of "the cloud" and companies like google trying to get access to everything and control everything or ISP's being anything but mindless tunnels. It's scary where things are headed to be honest, those in power are determined to control any and everything. World fights and shoots down SOPA, and government brings a bill back a few months later...this time they'll just vote on it in private, remove the peoples voice.

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  • @subigo said: They've started internal development and testing of an "EC2 for dummies", which will be aimed at non-developers. It's supposed to have a simple to use web-based control panel and IPs that can be dedicated, even after a shutdown. The only cost to users on the basic plan will be bandwidth charges (which by the time it launches will probably be about $0.10/GB).

    I'm missing something...all of this exists today. Web-based control panel exists and it's already easy to use. You can rent an IP (reserve one) and it's $.01 per hour when not attached to a running server (if you're paying a server hourly charge, it's free).

    Excluding bandwidth and disk, you can get a 613MB, 1 CPU Linux for $3.71 a month with a three-year prepay, or $6.10/month with a one-year prepay. That includes one IP. That's the always-on price based on 744 hours/month.

    Downsides? Your CPU is severely capped, disk is 10cents a GB, and bandwidth is 10 cents a GB (or more).

    If you want a Small instance (1.7GB) you're up close to $28 before disk/bandwidth.

    And of course, I'm giving you the one year/three year prepay option. On demand is significantly more.

    Basically a much simpler version of their current "free for a year" offer.

    Maybe they're just putting a different font on a service they already offer...?

    From what I've read, AWS is successful but it's not wildly successful. Something on the order of $200 million in revenue in 2010. That's for all of AWS.

    Amazon as a whole has revenue of $48B (and a reaaaallly crappy profit margin - $48B in total Amazon sales, $600 million in net income). I imagine EC2 is a low-margin business - and I still wonder why Amazon does it, given that it must consume massive management time and attention for comparative pennies.

    My Advice: : VPS Advice
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  • subigosubigo Member
    edited April 2012

    @raindog308 said: Maybe they're just putting a different font on a service they already offer...?

    Pretty much, yes. Here's the thing though, right now EC2 is a pain in the ass to use and even tech savvy developers go to places like Linode, because it's easier to understand. With a VPS there's no special lingo to learn, no resource calculator needed, and documentation/support is simple. I've had app developers hire me just to set up and manage a single instance at Amazon.

    Imagine EC2 dumbed down to the point that the average LET user could easily log in and have a server running in under a minute, without having to look up instructions. Think SolusVM meets EC2 and all you pay is bandwidth costs.

    Let's be honest. Most VPS users don't even go over 1GB of transfer in a month and their CPU usage is almost nothing. If Amazon does it right, they'll put a lot of "low-end" providers out of business.

    As to why they bother with AWS at all and need to make it simpler? App developers. That's it. They are already the king of the app developer hosting world, but are still losing a massive amount of market share to regular vps/dedicated providers. This article hints at what Amazon hopes AWS will eventually become: http://www.wired.com/magazine/2011/11/ff_bezos/all/1

    If they make things simpler, the entire market changes. If they build it (which they are), they will come.

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  • I doubt they will get cheaper, you have to count inflation into the mix as well. Nobody is going to be offering 1G VPS's for pennies. Memory prices alone dictate that. If we could all ditch IPv4 today it would only mean that we can put the money towards improving services vs paying for all those extra IPv4 addresses from our data centers. Same reason I'm working on my own ASN and v4 space is even a /24 would be much cheaper than paying a dollar an ip a month. They're giving out the V6's easily enough, but it goes up a grand by next year.

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  • KuJoeKuJoe Member

    @FRCorey said: They're giving out the V6's easily enough, but it goes up a grand by next year.

    IPv6 will be more expensive than IPv4 if you have less than a /20 of IPv4 from ARIN next year. Not a big deal but just pointing it out there.

    Also, ARIN doesn't give out less than a /22 so you'll need to have 2 /24s used before you can qualify for a /22 (which is pretty crazy since some data centers charge you over $250 for a /24 these days which would make me cry).

    -Joe @ SecureDragon - LEB's Powered by Wyvern in FL, CO, CA, IL, NJ, GA, TX, and AZ
    Test our network here: Drgn.biz
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  • @Francisco said: Don't expect IPV6 to just roll out at the end of the year and everything is dandy. There is at least a few major ISP's that have no interest to roll any IPV6 this decade.

    Cough BT.

    The Original Daniel.

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  • The low limit for prices is set by the fixed per transaction fee of the payment gateway. Most of us are already in the "cents" area per month with multiple months commitments.

    IperWeb & Prometeus, Hosting Provider since 1997. iwStack cloud infrastructure
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  • LV_MattLV_Matt Member
    edited April 2012

    @Daniel said: Cough BT.

    BT are slightly interested in it (source: http://ipv6.bt.com/), I called up TalkTalk about a year ago and they have no plans in the foreseeable future to roll out IPv6.

    LoveVPS - 2GB RAM - 25 GB RAID 10 Spring Sale from $7.00/mo - We provide KVM Virtual Servers with love!

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  • xenuxenu Member

    Actually, I pay 95 cents per month for my VPS without any discount :)

  • ZenZen Member
    edited April 2012

    @LV_Matt that's because BT hold a monopoly, every ISP in the UK uses BT as their actual provider, they just get bulk discounts and try and offer you a better price than BT can, they're also making pennies and it isn't their choice of whether to roll out IPv6.

    The UK really is screwed, since BT hold a monopoly and are resilient against even accepting that IPv6 is a reality..

    Even the ISP's pledged to 'support' it aren't actually working towards it. I think they'll have a pretty big shock if the industrial side of the internet (datacenters, hosting providers, websites in general) switch over to IPv6 while home users are still stuck behind.

  • @WhiteLabelHosting

    Well, a near monopoly. Virgin Media is the only other provider that has their own network, again, with no plans for IPv6. Their argument is that they have plenty of IPv4 addresses in reserve, so there's no immediate need.

  • dmmcintyre3dmmcintyre3 Member
    edited April 2012

    @subigo said: The only cost to users on the basic plan will be bandwidth charges (which by the time it launches will probably be about $0.10/GB).

    So $8/month for one of my VPSs that I pay $32/year for? (~80gb bw usage * 0.10 cents/gb = ~$8/month)

    Another VPS ($30/year) used almost 100gb this month, so that would be $10 for this month.

    FreeVPS.us - The oldest post to host VPS provider
  • @dmmcintyre3 said: So $8/month for one of my VPSs that I pay $32/year for? (~80gb bw usage * 0.10 cents/gb = ~$8/month)

    Another VPS ($30/year) used almost 100gb this month, so that would be $10 for this month.

    You aren't a normal VPS user then. Most people use less than 1GB/month. In four years, with over 1,000 VPS clients, I've never had a node go over 700GB/month. My busiest node at the moment has 32 containers. It averages 15GB/day, for everything combined. There aren't enough users like you to keep a lowend host in business if Amazon does it right.

  • dmmcintyre3dmmcintyre3 Member
    edited April 2012

    @subigo said: Most people use less than 1GB/month.

    I have a hard time believing that, as I have seen unused VPSs use 500mb bw. My IRC server used 1.3gb in the last 16 days.

    FreeVPS.us - The oldest post to host VPS provider
  • @dmmcintyre3 said: I have a hard time believing that, as I have seen unused VPSs use 500mb bw. My IRC server used 1.3gb in the last 16 days.

    Agree Even my almost unused forum uses like 5GB per month

  • @dmmcintyre3 said: I have a hard time believing that, as I have seen unused VPSs use 500mb bw. My IRC server used 1.3gb in the last 16 days.

    I'm telling you, for most companies that's just the way it is. Active users on this forum might be a little different, because a lot of you use your VPS for tunneling data, but the average VPS node does not use much bandwidth at all. I've owned/worked for two companies over the last five years and I did white-label hosting for one company that is very popular on WHT. I have never once seen a node go over 700GB/month. This is currently my busiest node:

    image

  • LOL, I use that 8-12 GB in one day in 2 of my boxes

  • IntcsIntcs Member
    edited April 2012

    Actually I've used over 750 GB before on an LEB ($15/m)!

    And I've used around 500 GB few times on several providers that are $7/m and less.

    Also I've used close to 250 GB/m for countless times! Am I being harsh (it's always way less than the on paper specification)?!

    Actually at Buyvm for instance, adding 1TB of bandwodth costs only a few dollars! I thought they wouldn't do it unless serious about it, since no one will upgrade bandwidth if he isn't already reaching/close to the 500gb or 1TB that originally comes with the plan.

    Please beware that his parents are now using the membership to post for their own, together with our precious son..

  • AldryicAldryic Member
    edited April 2012

    @Intcs is right, we offer additional bandwidth in 1TB slices for 2,50$ each. And a rather large number of folks (even on the plans with higher limits) purchase this upgrade out of necessity after using their allotted bandwidth.

    @subigo said: Let's be honest. Most VPS users don't even go over 1GB of transfer in a month and their CPU usage is almost nothing. If Amazon does it right, they'll put a lot of "low-end" providers out of business.

    Pretty much the only 'host' I can think of this being true for would be "dr"mike and his legion of soccer moms.

  • nabonabo Member
    edited April 2012

    @Aldryic said: Pretty much the only 'host' I can think of this being true for would be "dr"mike and his legion of soccer moms.

    Ah yes. I've missed the "argument" with the soccer moms whenever someone came up with a handy line of code for the shell.

    "Kids, you tried your best and failed miserably. The lesson learned is: never try."

  • @Aldryic said: legion of soccer moms.

    are they milfs? --derailing thread started...

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  • @Aldryic said: Pretty much the only 'host' I can think of this being true for would be "dr"mike and his legion of soccer moms.

    People use you for tunneling traffic, of course they use bandwidth. How many other companies have you / do you work for right now? How many other vps companies do you provide on call admin support for? How many other companies do you have access to bandwidth data for right now? I guarantee it's not as many as I do. I can also tell you, with 100% certainty, that the majority of dedicated server users at WSI use less than 100GB/month.

  • @subigo said: People use you for tunneling traffic, of course they use bandwidth. How many other companies have you / do you work for right now? How many other vps companies do you provide on call admin support for? How many other companies do you have access to bandwidth data for right now? I guarantee it's not as many as I do. I can also tell you, with 100% certainty, that the majority of dedicated server users at WSI use less than 100GB/month.

    I had a dedicated once, and I used around 400GB monthly, using only RO. And on my VPS, one of them I have 300GB monthly, and on the VPN one, 400GB monthly. the other ones, not even 10GB.

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  • AldryicAldryic Member
    edited April 2012

    @subigo said: People use you for tunneling traffic, of course they use bandwidth.

    They also use us for streaming, webhosting, game servers, bittorrent, irc, and personal applications.

    @subigo said: How many other companies have you / do you work for right now?

    Two others, non-hosting related.

    @subigo said: How many other vps companies do you provide on call admin support for?

    I'm a loyalist. I only work for Francisco.

    @subigo said: I guarantee it's not as many as I do.

    image

    @subigo said: How many other companies do you have access to bandwidth data for right now?

    VPS companies, 2. Non-hosting, four.

    @subigo said: I can also tell you, with 100% certainty, that the majority of dedicated server users at WSI use less than 100GB/month.

    'Grats, that lets you luck out on bandwidth costs. However, WSI != every other provider, don't presume to speak for the hosts you don't piddle with.

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  • subigosubigo Member
    edited April 2012

    @Aldryic said: 'Grats, that lets you luck out on bandwidth costs. However, WSI != every other provider, don't presume to speak for the hosts you don't piddle with.

    I wouldn't be lucking out on anything. I don't oversell bandwidth.

    No, but it does equal a ton of hosts on LET/LEB/lowendanything. Presume to speak for hosts I don't piddle with? Isn't that what you just did? Stop being such a hypocrite (I understand you're working on a TM for the word, sorry).

    Do you do anything other than bitch about things? Seriously. I've never seen you do anything else. All you do is complain and call people hypocrites.

  • @Francisco said: There is at least a few major ISP's that have no interest to roll any IPV6 this decade.

    Noobs. :) It does suck that almost no one in the US offers v6.

    To the OP, I doubt it'll ever get much below $0.75 (or MAYBE $0.50)/month. And even then they'd require larger payments as Fran said, I suspect (to help recoup CC/paypal/etc fees, whatever). They do have a certain amount of administrative fees, wages, etc, no matter how unmanaged a host they are.

    I'm sure there will always be those who try to beat out the competition by a few cents, and I'm sure it'll even work for some (ahem buyvm). But I wouldn't expect it to be anywhere near the norm.

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  • AldryicAldryic Member
    edited April 2012

    Seems as though it'd be more of a patent or copyright than a trademark.

    @subigo said: Do you do anything other than bitch about things? Seriously. I've never seen you do anything else.

    Try opening your eyes, I'm a rather active member here. Or would seeing something that doesn't coincide with your weak excuse for a rebuttal be too inconvenient? :3

    @subigo said: Presume to speak for hosts I don't piddle with? Isn't that what you just did?

    Nope. Let's review, just so you're not confused. I cited a specific example based on the limits of my knowledge... you know, because I don't work for every provider out there :P

    @Aldryic said: Pretty much the only 'host' I can think of this being true for would be "dr"mike and his legion of soccer moms.

    You could've easily answered that with other examples rather than vague claims. Now, let's take a look at your prior statements, which my example was answering:

    @subigo said: the average VPS node does not use much bandwidth at all

    @subigo said: Most VPS users don't even go over 1GB of transfer in a month and their CPU usage is almost nothing.

    Oh, look at that. Attempting to call the kettle black does not magically absolve you of the same offense :3

    And just for giggles:

    @subigo said: How many other companies do you have access to bandwidth data for right now? I guarantee it's not as many as I do.

    @Aldryic said: VPS companies, 2. Non-hosting, four.

    @subigo said: I've owned/worked for two companies over the last five years

    Well snap. I hope you offer better guarantees to your clients <3

  • A trademark is a word, a patent is an idea. I'll just let you get back to your BuyVM circlejerk now. I honestly believe you get off on arguing with people here.

  • A patent is an idea, aye, but I was under the impression that it was also an application. Like having the patent on velcro, for example. Wouldn't a trademark fall more under the logo arena? Could've sworn there was another type of protection for catchphrases/etc.

    I'd invite you back to the circlejerk with us, but lets be honest. Even with all of our shenanigans, we do require at least some maturity, and we'd rather not deal with folks that just want to pick a fight over something silly rather than have an actual conversation :P Best of luck to you, though.

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