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[Poll] Limits for LET/B OpenVZ Offers (both providers/customers)
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[Poll] Limits for LET/B OpenVZ Offers (both providers/customers)

edited December 2013 in General

Hello,
Most OVZ providers here on LET/B make offers that is "unbelievable" at LET/B prices, eg. 2GB RAM for $3/month (don't name anybody here).
Usually their (mainly new providers) servers are overloaded and make other users unhappy because of IO issues, CPU issues etc.
I have created a poll, please show your opinions for all OpenVZ plans (not for KVM/others).
Suggestions are welcome to be posted below.

Suggestions
  1. OpenVZ/For Providers51 votes
    1. Set a minimum price for resources such as RAM/Disk/CPU Core
        7.84%
    2. Create limits for providers under 1yr
      13.73%
    3. Expand the $7 limit
      13.73%
    4. Show benchmarks for OVZ plans
      17.65%
    5. Keep it the way it is now
      39.22%
    6. Ex.large plans may go between $7-$14/pm
        7.84%
  2. OpenVZ/Customers51 votes
    1. Set a minimum price for resources such as RAM/Disk/CPU Core
      11.76%
    2. Create limits for providers under 1yr
      13.73%
    3. Expand the $7 limit
        7.84%
    4. Show benchmarks for OVZ plans
      11.76%
    5. Keep it the way it is now
      45.10%
    6. Ex.large plans may go between $7-$14/pm
        9.80%
«1

Comments

  • Why no option to reduce the limits?

  • edited December 2013

    @Nekki choose #1 or #2.

    @EverybodyElse Just to clarify that the first poll is for your opinion as if you are a provider, and the second poll is for your opinion as if you are a visitor visiting LET/B. Of course you can vote in both of them.

  • How does option 1 or 2 equate to reducing the limits?

  • edited December 2013

    @Nekki #1 limits the maximum resource you can offer for $7, #2 is the same thing, but for providers <1yr only.

  • I'm talking about reducing the price limit to (for example) $5 per month, not setting a resource maximum.

  • edited December 2013

    Aah that. I don't think it's going to work, at least it's not good for providers. Or we can rename the website to "SuperLowEndTalk" lol.

  • joepie91joepie91 Member, Patron Provider

    @Nekki said:
    I'm talking about reducing the price limit to (for example) $5 per month, not setting a resource maximum.

    Seems like that'd just make providers cram (ie. oversell) the same resources into a lower price, to keep business from LET.

  • @Andy said:
    Aah that. I don't think it's going to work, at least it's not good for providers. Or we can rename the website to "SuperLowEndTalk" lol.

    This is a poll, so surely it's not actually about your opinion, but everyone else's?

  • @Spirit can you edit that?

  • @joepie91 said:
    Seems like that'd just make providers cram (ie. oversell) the same resources into a lower price, to keep business from LET.

    I suspect you might be right, would that see those with unsustainable business plans go to the wall faster?

  • joepie91joepie91 Member, Patron Provider

    @Nekki said:
    I suspect you might be right, would that see those with unsustainable business plans go to the wall faster?

    The problem is that there's no end to these things. One unsustainable provider falls, ten new ones have sprung up... and customers just walk into the next trap.

  • @joepie91 said:
    The problem is that there's no end to these things. One unsustainable provider falls, ten new ones have sprung up... and customers just walk into the next trap.

    So what would be a viable deterrent for summer hosts and their ilk, in your opinion?

  • As an LEB consumer I'm happy with how the current system works. Unless I'm familiar with the brand I stay away from the "too good to be true" offers.

    However, I wouldn't mind seeing an Above LEB offers section that can exceed the $7, but I hope the heart of the site would remain the same. I'm amazed at the amount of resources that are being thrown out there for what I'd imagine would be minimal profit and I hope the brands that frequent here can continue to compete with customers demands for more and more resources.

    I've seen fellow consumers scoff at 256-512 boxes and the smaller offers are becoming harder to find. It makes me wonder what the LEB market will look like in a few years.

  • joepie91joepie91 Member, Patron Provider
    edited December 2013

    @Nekki said:
    So what would be a viable deterrent for summer hosts and their ilk, in your opinion?

    A reliable deterrent to summer hosts... I'm not sure that's possible - after all, the summerhost problem involves more than just overselling. But it is definitely possible to weed out business plans that are guaranteed to implode from the start (eg. unsustainable plans) by setting a required price/resource ratio - such as a maximum amount of RAM/disk per dollar in price.

    If really necessary, an exception could be set for reputable providers, where an offer that does not fit the ratio is only posted when the host can give full (!) transparency as to how they've made their plans sustainable.

  • trewqtrewq Administrator, Patron Provider

    I think businesses that are required to send financial reports to their respective governments due to being a registered business should get preference for offer posting on leb.

  • @joepie91 said:
    If really necessary, an exception could be set for reputable providers, where an offer that does not fit the ratio is only posted when the host can give full (!) transparency as to how they've made their plans sustainable.

    Wouldn't this be giving away company secrets? ;-)

  • joepie91joepie91 Member, Patron Provider

    @CastleServers said:
    Wouldn't this be giving away company secrets? ;-)

    That's the trade-off. If you really have some awesome secret to killer prices in a sustainable business model (which, let's face it, most people don't despite claiming otherwise), then revealing that will only lead to more adoption of the model by others, which in turn is better for the customers / users. If you don't want to reveal the model, then you risk being grouped in with all the unsustainable companies claiming to have a secret sauce while actually just overselling.

    Realistically, if revealing your plan can make it no longer work, your plan wasn't very good to begin with. The best business model is a business model where you always retain the 'edge', even if the model becomes public knowledge. For an example of that, have a look at OVH.

    Thanked by 1vRozenSch00n
  • @joepie91 said:
    Realistically, if revealing your plan can make it no longer work, your plan wasn't very good to begin with. The best business model is a business model where you always retain the 'edge', even if the model becomes public knowledge. For an example of that, have a look at OVH.

    Very true! Thanks for expanding on your initial statement. This puts a new perspective on hosting for me.

  • mikhomikho Member, Host Rep

    The only person who has a say what prices a provider should set on their product is the provider himself.
    The customers will then be able to buy the product and decide if it was worth the price or not. If someone is able to put 300 customers on a single server and everyone is happy with the performance, why change? If they customers are not happy, they will leave and stop paying for the service, thus "forcing" the provider to change or running the business with a loss.

    Instead it will be better to educate the customers to opimize their usage and with optimizing there will be no need for 8GB offers anymore.

  • MikHo said: Instead it will be better to educate the customers to opimize their usage and with optimizing there will be no need for 8GB offers anymore.

    A laudable aim, but is that realistic? It's human nature to want more for less, and even if everyone here had the skill and knowledge to squeeze what they're working on into 128MBm would that stop them buying a 2GB if it's only $1 a month more?

  • mikhomikho Member, Host Rep

    @Nekki said:

    A laudable aim, but is that realistic? It's human nature to want more for less, and even > if everyone here had the skill and knowledge to squeeze what they're working on > > into 128MBm would that stop them buying a 2GB if it's only $1 a month more?

    Nothing can stop people if their mind is set. But to some in this world $1 / month does make a difference.

    The first part of my post that you quoted was that a Provider is the only one who should set the price on his product, not the customer.
    If the provider can handle overallocation without clients noticing if they are alone or with 300 neighbors on that server, that is fine with me.

    The point I was trying to make was if LE* took the choice of "educating" or make its readers more interested in really using the resources they got, the providers will have choice if they want to offer high-ram offers or not.
    I'm not a regular reader of LEB anymore but I suspect that the offers posted are more and more high-ram offers? So to fill the criteria to be posted, one "has" to offer high-ram vps.

    I've already posted a suggestion in the feedback thread that it is time to define what this site(s) are about, a definition made by the owners/admins/mods. They can (if they want to) ask for feedback from the community but it needs to be them that defines it.

  • We might do something like what VPSBoard does, have a special section for "verified providers".

    Thanked by 1vRozenSch00n
  • I personally like it when a provider gives a promo code for say 40% off all their products not just the ones that meet LET/LEB. I've orders services for higher then the $7 month price because of promotions like that.

  • mikhomikho Member, Host Rep

    @PcJamesy said:
    I personally like it when a provider gives a promo code for say 40% off all their products not just the ones that meet LET/LEB. I've orders services for higher then the $7 month price because of promotions like that.

    But. LE* has a pricelimit on the offers that are allowed.

  • Coupons do not.

  • NeoonNeoon Community Contributor, Veteran

    pff expand, its normaly that for 7$ 2gig is overzold.

  • The better option would be an agent that VPS providers add to their servers which passes the server specification, number of VPS with total memory and disk commits; IO wait, load and network interface stats to a central server. This data could then be used to determine just how badly a server is being oversold and deal with the neverending BS of 'we dont oversell' said the guy with a 64GB server which was oversold to 200GB, and disk space oversold 10x over.

    We use something similar internally to see when we are getting hotspots - we generally run 10-12 VPS's per server so sometimes a customer wants an upgrade which can then impact the servers performance, so this helps us determine overselling or overcontended servers.

  • @MarkTurner said "'we dont oversell' said the guy with a 64GB server which was oversold to 200GB"

    This is LEB/T where the guy who "doesn't oversell" probably has a 32GB E3 which is oversold to 250-300GB :)

  • @DomainBop - I didn't want to push my luck on that one ;)

  • Please, not more rules, guidelines, limits, etc.

    MikHo said: The only person who has a say what prices a provider should set on their product is the provider himself. The customers will then be able to buy the product and decide if it was worth the price or not. If someone is able to put 300 customers on a single server and everyone is happy with the performance, why change?

    This!

    As consumers we need to stop telling providers how to run their businesses.

    Instead, we need to devise better ways of expressing our satisfaction in a quantifiable manner.

    The newbie summer host will have a Satisfaction Index of 0.

    The guys who lead the "top hosts" poll time and again will quickly earn a Satisfaction Index of 100+

    Now someone please go figure out the mechanics of how it works :)

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